Mahavishnu Orchestra-Berkley 1972-All footage

[N E Y]

.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 388&hl=en#

[tiffany]

Wow nice find! I'll never forget the first time I listened to Mahavishnu Orchestra... listening to "Dawn" was like a revelation. And I've never seen a photo of John McLaughlin when he was young! Didn't know he was such a sharp looking guy

[N E Y]

Wow nice find! I'll never forget the first time I listened to Mahavishnu Orchestra... listening to "Dawn" was like a revelation. And I've never seen a photo of John McLaughlin when he was young! Didn't know he was such a sharp looking guy

Hi Tiffany

By the way ....since you were wondering..In the interview segments interspersed in the video he gives a very succinct and clear definition of meditation and it's purpose.

Meditation is focused concentration....when you focus on the inner witness it becomes spiritually focussed. A race car driver is also in meditation , or he would lose control and die, but while driving his focus is outward. After the race he may sit and meditate by turning his focus inwardly and witnessing. Therefore there is no attempt to control the mind as this is not truly possible. When one is focused on the inner self (the witness) the mind automatically stops and rests without any effort on our part. The arts, deep sleep, and other intense waking state experiences also stop the mind, but they can only do this for a very short duration.

Hence when an artist is one with music and letting it play spontaneously, he/she is in meditation. There is no egotism (identification with the mind's very limited ideas about who we are) and the music can flow freely. The personality of the artist will act as a natural filter to let pass the musical aspects that are beloved to that artist. That is what we call "style' and "genre" Why? Because music is as infinite as creation and the universe and therefore selected aspects are shown to the artist. The more developed the artist, the more variety, refinement and complexity he can withstand and understand. After all creation and the universe are infinitely complex and refined.

All this is my direct experience and is also available in scriptural texts and a few select modern works such as ''Effortless Mastery" -Werner and "The Music Lesson" Wootten and "Principles Of Music"B.Baker.

The only thing that actually matters is to do it. Just reading my guidance intellectually as well as the books, does not work at all!


Here is J. McLaughlin saying the same thing in his experience terms:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY5r44D_ ... r_embedded




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[/i]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ney_mello
http://www.youtube.com/user/NeyMelloOfficial?
http://bit.ly/aSUSw6
http://www.musicarts.com/Stores/Store.a ... 320&mode=1
http://www.facebook.com/pages/NEY-MELLO/8702485599
http://www.myspace.com/neymello
http://www.twitter.com/NeyMelloGuitar

[Raif]

That's another way to look at the thing you've been talking me about : music soul take-over (not necessarily soul music )

Thank you, it gives another perspective and makes a joint with meditation .

[N E Y]

Thank you, it gives another perspective and makes a joint with meditation .

You don't need to smoke a joint to meditate...

Meditation itself provides the bliss that blows away any drug. Drugs eventually delude the mind..it may take decades, but they all do it because they have limitations in effectiveness and tax the body in the process wearing it down. An artifically worn out, impaired body is not an effective vehicle for the soul. It will distort any knowledge and prevent further knowledge. Enlightenment is not due to ingesting anything or injecting anything in your body!

But you have to know this by direct experience..by doing it



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ney_mello
http://www.youtube.com/user/NeyMelloOfficial?
http://bit.ly/aSUSw6
http://www.musicarts.com/Stores/Store.a ... 320&mode=1
http://www.facebook.com/pages/NEY-MELLO/8702485599
http://www.myspace.com/neymello
http://www.twitter.com/NeyMelloGuitar

[tiffany]

[i]Hi Tiffany

By the way ....since you were wondering..In the interview segments interspersed in the video he gives a very succinct and clear definition of meditation and it's purpose.

Meditation is focused concentration....when you focus on the inner witness it becomes spiritually focussed. A race car driver is also in meditation , or he would lose control and die, but while driving his focus is outward. After the race he may sit and meditate by turning his focus inwardly and witnessing. Therefore there is no attempt to control the mind as this is not truly possible. When one is focused on the inner self (the witness) the mind automatically stops and rests without any effort on our part. The arts, deep sleep, and other intense waking state experiences also stop the mind, but they can only do this for a very short duration.

Awesome, I haven't had to opportunity to watch the whole thing because it's finals week over here at my cc but I will as soon as I'm done!

Hence when an artist is one with music and letting it play spontaneously, he/she is in meditation. There is no egotism (identification with the mind's very limited ideas about who we are) and the music can flow freely. The personality of the artist will act as a natural filter to let pass the musical aspects that are beloved to that artist. That is what we call "style' and "genre" Why? Because music is as infinite as creation and the universe and therefore selected aspects are shown to the artist. The more developed the artist, the more variety, refinement and complexity he can withstand and understand. After all creation and the universe are infinitely complex and refined.

I've actually read that there are multiple levels of meditation. The first level is concentrating on one thing (such as breath) without being distracted by other thoughts. I'm not exactly sure where this next level falls in the hierarchy because I've only tried to work within the first level, but one of the next levels is having no thoughts whatsoever and simply observing with your inner consciousness (I think you call it the inner witness). When you talk about "becoming one with the music", would this be associated with the first level or the next level of meditation? I was also wondering if you personally practice meditation on its own (as in separate from music) and find that it helps with music OR if you only practice meditation by playing music (since becoming the music IS meditation) OR perhaps both? I'd be really interested to know how you use meditation in the context of music.

Btw, it's ironic that I find all this so fascinating now, as I used to associate meditation with die-hard ascetics and the like, even when the connection between music and meditation was right in my face! Most of the artists I was listening to meditate or adhere to some sort of Eastern philosophy: looking up the words to the chorus of "Across the Universe", listening to John Coltrane's "Meditations", and learning about John McLaughlin's preoccupation with Indian philosophy, all come to mind.

[N E Y]

Hence when an artist is one with music and letting it play spontaneously, he/she is in meditation. There is no egotism (identification with the mind's very limited ideas about who we are) and the music can flow freely. The personality of the artist will act as a natural filter to let pass the musical aspects that are beloved to that artist. That is what we call "style' and "genre" Why? Because music is as infinite as creation and the universe and therefore selected aspects are shown to the artist. The more developed the artist, the more variety, refinement and complexity he can withstand and understand. After all creation and the universe are infinitely complex and refined.

I've actually read that there are multiple levels of meditation. The first level is concentrating on one thing (such as breath) without being distracted by other thoughts. I'm not exactly sure where this next level falls in the hierarchy because I've only tried to work within the first level, but one of the next levels is having no thoughts whatsoever and simply observing with your inner consciousness (I think you call it the inner witness). When you talk about "becoming one with the music", would this be associated with the first level or the next level of meditation? I was also wondering if you personally practice meditation on its own (as in separate from music) and find that it helps with music OR if you only practice meditation by playing music (since becoming the music IS meditation) OR perhaps both? I'd be really interested to know how you use meditation in the context of music.


Yes....Spiritual meditation Since 1985. I also am -like any artist who plays music as art- in meditation every time I play, however the focus point is different, it is music itself or the love of music to be exact, because music can only be accessed by love , not by ideas and ideological/theoretical conceptions about what it is or is not. Spiritual meditation helps with absolutely everything in my life. When it comes to using meditation in the context of music, it not about "using" meditation. It is about absolute focus on music. Of course that cannot be taught in book form, only a general description can be given. Just like any form of meditation , you have to have a living master to put you in complete touch with your inner master. This living master HAS to be someone who embodies music at the highest levels of expression and freedom in the styles you like. I was very fortunate to have Al Di Meola as my master/mentor because one needs the direct contact with one who embodies that state. Before that I could only experience music irregularly and sporadically and often semi-consciously. That was enough to have a solo career and great reviews, but I wanted the real deal! like my heros! Additionally, the practice of Spiritual meditation alongside that allowed me to experience promptly what I had to learn . When oneness with music is realized..one enters infinity in expressive capabilities in music, even within the confines of a single musical style.

Btw, it's ironic that I find all this so fascinating now, as I used to associate meditation with die-hard ascetics and the like, even when the connection between music and meditation was right in my face! Most of the artists I was listening to meditate or adhere to some sort of Eastern philosophy: looking up the words to the chorus of "Across the Universe", listening to John Coltrane's "Meditations", and learning about John McLaughlin's preoccupation with Indian philosophy, all come to mind.

Whether it is Indian or chinese, or european traditions, it is all one. One choses what one can relate to in terms of the practices, culturally speaking. But the result is the same. It is quite telling to me that whenever I speak to a real-world artist ( most are the world class professionals, but a few exist who do not play in public ) everyone of them shares the exact same experience that I try to convey to my awakened students and in a more limited way by my articles. They all do the exact same thing. Most cannot speak clearly verbally to others about such an uncommon topic and many just don't want to talk about it in public, because the public cannot understand what is outside their daily realm of experience. And it does not matter anyway . What matters to the public is cool music!! .Now most people don't care to be artists, they just want to play a little guitar to have a little fun and a glimpse into bliss. To them it is fine to play music without realizing what it is. Only those born to be artists will go to the trouble of doing what it takes to realize what music is and why it is a part of their being and not "something you do and get great at from repetition", although repetition is key. But having the direct experience of music is fundamental. Any great player IS in a manner of speaking a "die-hard ascetic" compared to a normal musician's comparatively complacent and indifferent attitude

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http://www.youtube.com/user/NeyMelloOfficial?
http://bit.ly/aSUSw6
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/NEY-MELLO/8702485599
http://www.myspace.com/neymello
http://www.twitter.com/NeyMelloGuitar

[tiffany]

Yes....Spiritual meditation Since 1985. I also am -like any artist who plays music as art- in meditation every time I play, however the focus point is different, it is music itself or the love of music to be exact, because music can only be accessed by love , not by ideas and ideological/theoretical conceptions about what it is or is not. Spiritual meditation helps with absolutely everything in my life. When it comes to using meditation in the context of music, it not about "using" meditation. It is about absolute focus on music. Of course that cannot be taught in book form, only a general description can be given. Just like any form of meditation , you have to have a living master to put you in complete touch with your inner master. This living master HAS to be someone who embodies music at the highest levels of expression and freedom in the styles you like. I was very fortunate to have Al Di Meola as my master/mentor because one needs the direct contact with one who embodies that state. Before that I could only experience music irregularly and sporadically and often semi-consciously. That was enough to have a solo career and great reviews, but I wanted the real deal! like my heros! Additionally, the practice of Spiritual meditation alongside that allowed me to experience promptly what I had to learn . When oneness with music is realized..one enters infinity in expressive capabilities in music, even within the confines of a single musical style.

That is very interesting and informative. Yes, I couldn't find the right words... instead of "using" meditation I meant to ask about how meditation applies to music and what your experience is with the practice of meditation in your daily life. It does seem like the skills you learn by practicing meditation would be beneficial for anything you do in life, although I've only had a taste of it. I can't imagine what the experience of meditation is like after so many years of practice! It seems so simple to just be completely in the moment, but as we know from the Principles the simplest things are often the hardest things! From my experience performing, it's very difficult to get out of thinking things like "i wonder how this sounds to other people" to just being completely in the moment.

Sometimes I wish we could go back to a time when most learning was done by an apprenticeship system when apprentices would even live with their masters for years. It seems like the best way to learn any skill, but sadly we don't do things that way anymore although I believe apprenticeships are more common in European countries than the US... I'd be very interested to know what it was like for you to have Al Di Meola as your mentor.

Whether it is Indian or chinese, or european traditions, it is all one. One choses what one can relate to in terms of the practices, culturally speaking. But the result is the same. It is quite telling to me that whenever I speak to a real-world artist ( most are the world class professionals, but a few exist who do not play in public ) everyone of them shares the exact same experience that I try to convey to my awakened students and in a more limited way by my articles. They all do the exact same thing. Most cannot speak clearly verbally to others about such an uncommon topic and many just don't want to talk about it in public, because the public cannot understand what is outside their daily realm of experience. And it does not matter anyway . What matters to the public is cool music!! .Now most people don't care to be artists, they just want to play a little guitar to have a little fun and a glimpse into bliss. To them it is fine to play music without realizing what it is. Only those born to be artists will go to the trouble of doing what it takes to realize what music is and why it is a part of their being and not "something you do and get great at from repetition", although repetition is key. But having the direct experience of music is fundamental. Any great player IS in a manner of speaking a "die-hard ascetic" compared to a normal musician's comparatively complacent and indifferent attitude

So true! Everyone has different ways to describe universal topics such as these, which for me makes it confusing at first until you realize everyone's talking about the same thing. It's just hard to keep track of all the different words! In western countries, they call it mindfulness which I think I prefer.

Yea, most people don't want to go as deep or put in the work it takes to become an artist. I think most artists want the public to think that they are special and were just born to do what they do. That's good enough for most people, who'll never bother to find out the truth or just can't comprehend the amount of work it takes. I bought into that idea too, until I started getting into my local music scene and meeting members of bands I really dug, and it was like "hey maybe I can do this too!" But it still took me a while after that to realize how much work it really takes to be a competent musician. So I went from thinking it was all about natural talent to the complete opposite! Now I think talent means squat and the most important thing is hard work using "correct" practice of course.

LOL yes I know that now, musicians are die-hard ascetics compared to the average person. I didn't know that before, which maybe contributed to my disregard of things like meditation. It's funny, I've always ranged from being extremely lazy to hard-working so much so that I would get straight As one semester taking all AP classes and then totally bomb the next semester (which is why I'm at community college now). I always knew I had the potential to be consistently dedicated though... and after deciding to completely commit myself to becoming a musician, I think I am now. I guess it just took the music to get it out of me.

[N E Y]

That is very interesting and informative. Yes, I couldn't find the right words... instead of "using" meditation I meant to ask about how meditation applies to music and what your experience is with the practice of meditation in your daily life. It does seem like the skills you learn by practicing meditation would be beneficial for anything you do in life, although I've only had a taste of it. I can't imagine what the experience of meditation is like after so many years of practice!

It is a very natural experience...nothing strange....My mental obstacles were gradually removed and my perception mechanism was cleaned so I could see and understand what I see. I also developed the ability to notice what most don't pay attention to, because they are too embroiled in their own mental little worlds. Learning ability and intelligence were also multiplied exponentially . All this continues.Interestingly, the more I know as a result, the less I can share in a public platform , because it is just too revolutionary or paradigm changing and can be to most very confusing unless you have the level of playing to get it by yourself, so instead I just perform the results and those who are ready for it will see me play and ask me the right questions and will, if they are ready, become interested in studying with me based on what I do musically/technically, if they like what they see and hear that is!

It seems so simple to just be completely in the moment, but as we know from the Principles the simplest things are often the hardest things! From my experience performing, it's very difficult to get out of thinking things like "i wonder how this sounds to other people" to just being completely in the moment.

Yes we all have egotism, some more than others, exactly as you describe it Tiffany, and it is our duty to get past it. Meditation IS the act of getting past it

Sometimes I wish we could go back to a time when most learning was done by an apprenticeship system when apprentices would even live with their masters for years. It seems like the best way to learn any skill, but sadly we don't do things that way anymore although I believe apprenticeships are more common in European countries than the US... I'd be very interested to know what it was like for you to have Al Di Meola as your mentor.

Yes, it is the ONLY way to learn the HIGHEST and most REFINED secrets. I use the word "secrets" because they are not discussed by those who know them in detail ( detail is crucial!) and they are out of the reach of those who can't even conceive of them because they are not masters! For example: Someone with my DVD will be saved from right hand speed limitations. Someone who studies with me in person will become great in a much shorter time because they have me right there catching all their misunderstandings and misapplications before they even know what they are..just ask Guillaume Le Page at GP and most importantly watch him play! Guillaume spent a week with me and gained a lifetime and MORE of experience.

I won't go into the detail's of what and how I learned from Al because the matters cannot be understood by those who do not have the necessary experience to benefit. It is like sitting in in quantum physics class or auditing a class by Maxwell on quaternions relationship to his electromagnetic equations. Without the necessary prior knowledge it is useless and too "far out". When one is ready, ready for real I mean~! and ready at any level the appropriate masters will either appear or make themselves available against all odd as it happened in this case to me.

Whether it is Indian or chinese, or european traditions, it is all one. One choses what one can relate to in terms of the practices, culturally speaking. But the result is the same. It is quite telling to me that whenever I speak to a real-world artist ( most are the world class professionals, but a few exist who do not play in public ) everyone of them shares the exact same experience that I try to convey to my awakened students and in a more limited way by my articles. They all do the exact same thing. Most cannot speak clearly verbally to others about such an uncommon topic and many just don't want to talk about it in public, because the public cannot understand what is outside their daily realm of experience. And it does not matter anyway . What matters to the public is cool music!! .Now most people don't care to be artists, they just want to play a little guitar to have a little fun and a glimpse into bliss. To them it is fine to play music without realizing what it is. Only those born to be artists will go to the trouble of doing what it takes to realize what music is and why it is a part of their being and not "something you do and get great at from repetition", although repetition is key. But having the direct experience of music is fundamental. Any great player IS in a manner of speaking a "die-hard ascetic" compared to a normal musician's comparatively complacent and indifferent attitude

So true! Everyone has different ways to describe universal topics such as these, which for me makes it confusing at first until you realize everyone's talking about the same thing. It's just hard to keep track of all the different words! In western countries, they call it mindfulness which I think I prefer.

Yea, most people don't want to go as deep or put in the work it takes to become an artist. I think most artists want the public to think that they are special and were just born to do what they do. That's good enough for most people, who'll never bother to find out the truth or just can't comprehend the amount of work it takes. I bought into that idea too, until I started getting into my local music scene and meeting members of bands I really dug, and it was like "hey maybe I can do this too!" But it still took me a while after that to realize how much work it really takes to be a competent musician. So I went from thinking it was all about natural talent to the complete opposite! Now I think talent means squat and the most important thing is hard work using "correct" practice of course.

LOL yes I know that now, musicians are die-hard ascetics compared to the average person. I didn't know that before, which maybe contributed to my disregard of things like meditation.

Remember this though Tiffany: It is only GREAT musicians who are the ascetics...not the average musician. The daily discipline and devotion is too much and too boring for the average human being focussed mostly on non-stop excessive sense pleasures By great I mean those musicians who have the ability to inspire you for a lifetime in the styles of music you love.

It's funny, I've always ranged from being extremely lazy to hard-working so much so that I would get straight As one semester taking all AP classes and then totally bomb the next semester (which is why I'm at community college now). I always knew I had the potential to be consistently dedicated though... and after deciding to completely commit myself to becoming a musician, I think I am now. I guess it just took the music to get it out of me.

You can only do your utmost when you are doing something you love..You may love more than one activity and thus your genius exists in more than one sphere of inspiration like Michelangelo, Da Vinci etc..., but you have to love...not just like!

[tiffany]

Wow, I didn't know that Guillaume studied with you for a week! I'd love to see more of his playing, but it seems like he hasn't uploaded much by way of his youtube channel. I probably will shoot him a PM sometime about his experience spending a week with you. I'd like to do something like that too, but probably only after I've gotten all I can out of Jamie's methods first, at least.

I won't go into the detail's of what and how I learned from Al because the matters cannot be understood by those who do not have the necessary experience to benefit. It is like sitting in in quantum physics class or auditing a class by Maxwell on quaternions relationship to his electromagnetic equations. Without the necessary prior knowledge it is useless and too "far out".

Yes, I see where you're coming from... When I was first browsing through these forums before getting the Principles book, a lot of the concepts and ideas in people's posts went way over my head. And it's not just because they were referring to specific exercises in the book that I didn't know yet... It wasn't until I firmly grasped all the Understandings in Jamie's book and put them into practice that I began to have a context for what everyone was talking about on the forums.

When one is ready, ready for real I mean~! and ready at any level the appropriate masters will either appear or make themselves available against all odd as it happened in this case to me.

It's interesting the way you worded that... I've experienced once a time when just the right people and opportunities that I was looking for came to me, and it seemed like it was "meant to be" in a way. But I think you have to be in a certain mindset to experience this... in my experience, it happened when I was more open-minded and giving off more positive vibes than usual. I haven't experienced this yet again, maybe because I'm not ready yet, as you say.

You can only do your utmost when you are doing something you love..You may love more than one activity and thus your genius exists in more than one sphere of inspiration like Michelangelo, Da Vinci etc..., but you have to love...not just like!

Yup, I've always known the only two things I would want to do career-wise is to either help people or do something music-related. Until recently, I planned to major in sociology and go to work for a non-profit after college, but I've decided that the music thing resonates more with me right now. Coming from a pretty stereotypical asian family, (the kind whose parents want their kids to be only three things: a doctor, a lawyer, or engineer), it took me a long time to come to terms with the risks of going into a career in music. BUT, I've finally decided that 1) there's just no way to minimize the risk and 2) that's okay because without risk, there would be no reward! But it seems like most musicians already come from a musical family background, so they don't have to go through that whole process, maybe because they're able to intuitively pick up on what it takes to become a professional from their parents/family members?

Btw, I finally got to the part of the video where John explains what meditation is! Really love the sky+clouds metaphor that he uses to explain it. It sums up really quite elegantly what meditation is. And I'm impressed that the interviewer even thought to ask him that question! Most interviewers wouldn't even bother with a question like that.