TIME FOR A TEST (Nov-08-03)

[moved from old forum:]

Great guitar-playing technique for me is to have total command on the instrument to the point where every motion becomes total instinctively, like walking, you don't think, you do, and you do it right.


Monster-topic, btw!

-Jeroen24

[moved from old forum:]

And now in detail:

What is great technique, or rather, how does one achieve it, or how does one achieve mastery in any field.

I followed a course on this in college, it was called something along the lines of "From beginner to expert".

I remember two distinct case-studies.
Case study 1: chess-students

Case study 2: fighter pilots.



Step 1 is the beginner level, learning the basics.
Case-study 1: the students learn the basics of the chess-game. The rules, the pieces.

Case-study 2: the student-pilot learns basic flight, basic combat, how to outmaneouvre the enemy, etc.

Step 2 is the intermediate level. At the intermediate level, people have learned and understood the basics and are now putting them in practice, however everything is still done at a concious level.

Case-study 1: Students begin to study recorded games, replaying them, and try to gain a deeper understanding of the game. Every move is thought out deliberately, the more advanced the student gets, the more moves he starts the think ahead before making his next move.

Case-study 2: Pilots engage in mock-dogfights, applying the principles in practice, gain a deeper understanding on how to fight the opponent, use his aircrafts strengths and minimize its weaknesses. They fight "by the book".


Step 3 is the expert level, or "mastery". This level is the hardest the reach because it means you have to let go of concious decisions and thoughts, take what you learned from the intermediate level and go by instinct and experience.

Case-study 1: A number of students would engage in "fast-chess" for a year in this experiment, they would play 10-games at the same time vs different people, at a very high tempo. Years later, these students had advanced to the level of mastery, while the other students mostly had been stuck at the intermediate level. A chess-mastery doesn't rely on concious thought, he can look at the chess-board and see the best move to make next almost instantly, on instinct and experience.

Case-study 2: This is a story about a flight-instructor doing a mock-dogfight vs a student. The student was at the intermediate level, he would counter every move from the instructor perfectly, didn't make a mistake. The instructor couldn't gain a victory, until he realized this student was making textbook moves and counters. At that point he simply let go, used his instincts and experience and defeated the student everytime.




What about guitar-technique then? I think it follows the same procedure, you learn the basics of correct technique, human anatomy, muscle memory. Once FIRMLY understood, you can advance to the intermediate level, where you gain a deeper understanding of what technique and motions to use in what situation, but it is still at a concious level.

Mastery is achieved after that, building on the understanding and experience you gained from being at the intermediate level, but letting go of concious thought, motion and preconceptions. There is no one technique to rule them all, no one textbook style that works everytime. You have to open your mind and "let it the notes flow out"...

-Jeroen24

[moved from old forum:]

"And now in detail: What is great technique, or rather, how does one achieve it..."

All you described in this are the applications and usages of great technique. Off course, as you wrote, all masters have great technique and use it or they would not be able to play very well, but what is it?

-Ney

[moved from old forum:]

Ok, I'm understanding the question now.

Q:What is being intelligent?

A: being able to solve problems easily.

That's a result of being intelligent. But what IS it?

Q: What is great technique?

A: Being able to play effortless.

That's a result of having great technique. But what IS it?

--

Ok ok ok, I'm getting it! Meditate on this I must. Seems like the understanding the question is more important than knowing the answer to it. (k, that was deep!)

-Jeroen24

[moved from old forum:]

Don't be discouraged. It is very, very difficult to answer. Not many have great technique because they do not know what it is and therefore they cannot develop what they don't understand yet, regardless of how long they have been playing.

Someone like WILLIE NELSON or JOHN LEE HOOKER or ALLAN HOLDSWORTH cannot verbalize it but they all developed very early on, so they knew what they were doing from the beginning because of extraordinary levels of physical intelligence.

The only chance for someone who is not as brilliant in terms of physical intelligence is to understand verbally and sequentially what to do.

The nature of this understanding is such that if I tell anyone who is trying what it is , they typically do not believe me or they will not understand me . It will sound like science fiction to them unless I have had the chance to teach them and they have had the chance to experience the results in their own playing, because they are thinking very differently than someone with great technique..so they HAVE to change their thought patterns RADICALLY by themselves since no one else can change it for them .

When the answer is found , there will have been an internal revolution and as a result of what I call this "detoxification of thought patterning mechanisms", the player is liberated from the shackles of the old commonplace ideas and set for life on the road to constant progress.

-Ney

[moved from old forum:]

Hi Ney!

You've just confirmed thoughts and idea's I have had for quite a while.

I'm naturally good at math, I've been that way since as long as I can remember. Yet I've never been really good at sports or other physical activities.

I've tried to help friends and family with their math when they had a test at school, and no matter how I tried to explain even the basics, it just didn't click for them. They just had to work 3-4x as hard as me to pass a test, and even then, they were still struggling, unable to really grasp the fundamentals.

And I've seen the reverse, friends that are naturally good at sports: snowboarding, baseball, etc. It seemed they progressed in those area's MUCH easier than I did. I had to work 3-4x as hard and long to reach the same levels as they did.

A year or two back I actually started to ask myself why. Why are some people just naturally good in some fields and not in others? Genes? Talent? I didn't believe that, and I reached the same conclusion as you did, it is the way their brain thinks, the thought-mechanisms and patterns. But how do these 'thought-patterns' develop? Experiences at a very young age? Even before concious thought develops? I don't know. Perhaps as in infant when I was developing basic motoric functions, I fell down one too many time and the mechanisms for developing them locked into "safe-mode" to avoid further damage, but also limiting development to advanced stages? No idea.

How do I set off this 'internal' revolution? Is it really detoxification? Or a matter of unlocking previously locked 'thought-patterns'. Perhaps this is the deeper meaning behind 'assume you know nothing, let go of the ego and humble yourself'. Perhaps only then are you ready to explore new avenue's.

Great food for thought! Thank you Ney!

-Jeroen24

[moved from old forum:]

"I'm naturally good at math, I've been that way since as long
as I can remember. Yet I've never been really good at sports
or other physical activities.

I've tried to help friends and family with their math when
they had a test at school, and no matter how I tried to
explain even the basics, it just didn't click for them. They
just had to work 3-4x as hard as me to pass a test, and even
then, they were still struggling, unable to really grasp the
fundamentals."

That can also be due sometimes to your teaching skills. When I had great math teachers it was a breeze for me . But 99% of those in my numerous schools worldwide could not teach me math effectively, because they skipped may phases of reasoning without expalining them and so all the kids who learned had much more mathematical intelligence than I or cared to work harder with bad teachers. It seems that more kids have math ability than physical intelligence. I think it is because of schooling. I naturally rebelled against the official school vibe because it was boring, so I did not fit the kid's mainstream culture very well.

"And I've seen the reverse, friends that are naturally good at
sports: snowboarding, baseball, etc. It seemed they progressed
in those area's MUCH easier than I did. I had to work 3-4x as
hard and long to reach the same levels as they did.

A year or two back I actually started to ask myself why. Why
are some people just naturally good in some fields and not in
others? Genes? Talent? I didn't believe that, and I reached
the same conclusion as you did, it is the way their brain
thinks, the thought-mechanisms and patterns. But how do these
'thought-patterns' develop? Experiences at a very young age?"

Yes, but the cultivation of those experiences throughout childhood without interruptions to absorb outdated adult thought models taught in most schools is key.

"Even before conscious thought develops?"

I think so. At least with me it was that way. The key is that they happen to everyone and they get discarded by most in favor of the obsolete models favored by most kids who get brainwashed easier.

"Do we have to dig deeper in our memory, go further back than we have before?"

Not really. Just forget about all the assumptions made before. They control current thought patterns. If you don't use them you have to be open to the rest of what exists inside you .

"Perhaps unlock memories we have hid away deep in a dark
corner? I don't know."

Yes that is part of the effort, but being open and discarding normal definitions more important, because what will be found is not normal or everyone would have this knowledge. So you have to think in abnormal terms , but with logic.

"How do I set off this 'internal' revolution? Is it really
detoxification?"

In the figurative sense only. Physical toxicity prevents the natural biological flow. Mental toxicity pertains to wrong assumptions that block the mental flow of "genius". That is why I don't understand the term "genius" in the way it is used commonly. To me everyone is naturally a genius, provided they function naturally and spontaneously as all beings in nature must do to fulfill their true potential.

Human beings have the capacity to personally block this natural gift of genius by giving up very soon on thinking for themselves due to the effort required or due to peer pressure to be mediocre.

They therefore chose to accept whatever anyone else teaches them , but without any true evaluation of the teachings presented to them. Anything gets accepted as truth if it makes superficial sense.

Nevertheless, great attainment in any field requires much more than this superficial understanding. Yet most don't care to think that hard sometimes because of the considerable effort required to think ACTIVELY, even for a few days, let alone a lifetime.

Reading novels or philosophy is not necessarily thinking, yet many who read avidly consider themselves intellectuals , just because they read in bulk and can regurgitate quotes form the authors like an excited parrot.

There is never any evaluation and contemplation of what is read, only a passive experiencing and deferential acceptance of the information on a very shallow perceptive level and this is purely by choice, unless there is some neurological disease which is not the case with these readers....at least I dont think so

An example of how to set this revolution is to stop and listen to your inner master.

For example if you see a question in a IQ test that is unclear to you. Stop and try to find out why ? Most people CHOSE to believe by religious faith that the test maker is brighter than they are. That is not proven, at least not at that point, but it is assumed with religious-like faith in a context where practicing faith is not the point, so the validity of the questions is not even questioned, when it should if it does not make sense to you.

A typical nebulous question is to feature a series of 5 or 20 items , which are dissimilar and to ask "which does not belong". At this point one can go into brainwash mode and try to find the item that is somehow different than the others or listen to the voice that says: "belong---> to WHAT?"

As you see there is no definition of context in the question. By making an automatic assumption on the context and trying to find "the object that does not belong" one is using obsolete teachings on how to think.

Therefore if the context were defined as "a group of 20 objects featuring 19 all clones of each other and 1 of them being different from the others" Then all the objects do belong including the different one. But that is never defined in this type of recurring IQ test question.

People don't question these vaguely formulated questions by choice, not because they are not very bright. Fear of being different, social peer pressure to conform to mass mediocrity or simple personal laziness cause these choices.

People want above all to be loved which is natural and necessary, so they will jump the gun too quickly and do anything to belong even if it means dumbing down their greatness to please those who are not very bright or are maybe jealous and insecure , but whose love they nevertheless crave, perhaps a little too much.

It takes a thought person to love themselves first , before they satisfy their natural craving for the love of others. Too many put the cart before the horse and chose to reduce themselves to the level of mass thought.

The great architect FRANK LOYD WRIGHT used to call this "mobocracy". He wrote a book entitled " Genius And The Mobocracy'

"Or a matter of unlocking previously locked
'thought-patterns'. Perhaps this is the deeper meaning behind
'assume you know nothing, let go of the ego and humble
yourself'. Perhaps only then are you ready to explore new
avenue's."

Well, once one realizes that one does not know it, one is automatically humbled by the that fact unless one is deluded or not very intelligent. So true humbling is very natural and effortless.

"Great food for thought! Thank you Ney!"

You are welcome!

-Ney

[moved from old forum:]

Hello Ney,

Well, you gave me quite something to think about the past weekend. And it was fun to do so.

My new attempt:

Great technique flows from a methodical approach to solving problems. It's an ever deepening process of analysis, conclusion and error-correction. As this process develops and iterates, the mind develops its tools to facilitate each aspect of the process, and an upwards spiral of development sets in motion. The tools that develop are quite personal and tailored to the individual itself. Following, rotation, no-tempo, muscle-awareness etc., as described in the principles of correct practive for guitar, are examples of such tools.

Desire, love, discipline are deciding factors in how deep you allow yourself to get immersed in this process. If the desire is strong enough, there's really no limit, the deeper you go, the deeper it gets And all the hard work that lies ahead will be worth it.

-Jeroen24

[moved from old forum:]

"Great guitar-playing technique for me is to have total
command on the instrument to the point where every motion
becomes total instinctively, like walking, you don't think,
you do, and you do it right.

Monster-topic, btw!"


Thanks Jeroen,

That is the consequence of great technique.

-Ney

[moved from old forum:]

Perfect technique is the process of operating the least amount of force for the desired effect to the instrument, directing the energy so that its converted just into the instrument into music without directing the force harmful into your own body.

-Rumsbums