Rhythm Issue

[GAA43]

I was going through this lesson on youtube for the song Honky Tonk Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph-d2bTM ... ature=plcp
and really getting it (not that its terribly hard). At several points, particularly around 2:30 and again around 6:10 he talks about getting into the groove of it, and he gets his body into it in a way that somehow for me was really illustrative for me, and I was grooving nicely. This is a fairly recent and very welcome development for me,to be able to pick up on a groove or strum by ear and get into it.

BUT - I wanted to do some practice with the metronome, ( in particular for the single-note riff part) so I went into my more normal analytical approach. The riff basically involves playing on the upbeat (the 'and') of beats 4 2, 3, letting the note played on 4& ring, out, and cutting the 2& and 3& notes off. So I can do this along with the record, and even tap my foot correctly on the downbeat, and it sounds okay. However I had a heck of a hard time to get to where I could do it with the metronome. I am able to do some syncopated stuff okay, but I think the challenge in this case is that its all syncopated - there's nothing happening on a downbeat to function as an anchor of sorts. Once I got it, it still didn't sound or feel as good as doing it 'Siggi's way'. FWI I put the video into Transcribe and analyzed it has best I could, and as far as I can tell he is basically playing the 'same' rhythm, but something is different.

So there it is - more of an observation than any specific question, but I'd be interested to read what anyone has to say about this.

Greg

[Average Joe]

The groove isn't a magical thing. It's only a matter of playing a little before or after the beat. Think of heavy metal musicians. To play very heavy, you need to play a little after the beat. You're still tight, but the notes doesn't drop right on the beat.
On the opposite, think of a jazz drummer and how the snare shot is sometimes split second before the beat. It gives a light feeling or groove to the song.
When you understand that, you can consiously control your groove to what you want.

[GAA43]

Hi Joe,
Thanks for your comment. Its interesting, I recently read a long thread on another forum talking about playing ahead or behind the beat, but it didn't occur to me that this (playing behind) might be a big part of the difference in feel.

At this point I have an intellectual awareness of playing behind/ahead, but I'm not having much success doing it. Any thoughts on specific ways to practice this?

Greg

[N E Y]

,
Hello Greg!


Well..Yes it is partly about playing ahead or behind he beat.... But to actually groove like your heroes, it is not that simple.... You need to feel how much ahead or how much behind...and that is a matter of feel.. physical feel..not emotional sensitivity or intellectual analysis...

The other elements are not just how ahead or how behind - which are of course essential- but how do you play your accents? Dynamics and time feel are everything , not just time feel. If you dont feel your dynamics you wont have groove..You may be tight and in the pocket and excellent on the surface , but something will be missing and you still wont groove like a master..no matter what style you play.... So you have to begin feeling the accents.

Accents are not simple loud and soft either. They vary tremendously and can change with the riff from repetition to repetition...You need to let go of your mental analysis at this point. You did what can be done with it and now you have to move beyond. Timing is the first half...accents are the final frontier..But you have to learn to listen more intensely and feel more intensely PHYSICALLY.

People born in dance cultures like South America And Africa, India, don't have these issues , but here, unless you are born very alert to rhythm, you have to work at developing them and you can as long as you work on the right factors: Time feel, accents and physical perception. not mental or emotional...These are already part of european culture which what you were exposed to for the most part.

Do that and you'll get it! and learn to dance and move your body without feeling awkward. You wont exactly groove or rock effortlessly like a great artist until you can do that and feel good about it.

All the best



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[Average Joe]

Thanks Ney,
You really deepened my understanding on that subject!