Casual vs. Classical Sitting Position (Oct-28-02)

[moved from old forum:]

Is it really necessary to sit in a classical sitting position all the time while practicing? I noticed that whenever I play the notes high up the neck (starting from the 10th fret up) it feels very uncomfortable for my left shoulder. If I were to sit in a casual position it feels much easier. Also my entire body body feels more comfortable in the casual postion. Also some of the greatest rock players (like Yngwie for instance) sit in a casual position.

Thanks,
Mike

[moved from old forum:]

Hi Mike,

It is not necessary to always play in the classical position. What is necessary is that your guitar is properly supported. If this isn't happening, when you practice you will be building tension into your playing.

Experiencing discomfort doesn't necessarily mean you should stop doing something. Every time you change a habit, it will feel uncomfortable at first. If you aren't already a great guitarist, you will need to change a lot of habits to become one. This means putting up with quite a lot of discomfort. By all means try to minimise this discomfort, because it could be an important signal that you are not doing something correctly. But be aware that sooner or later you are going to have to work through some discomfort in order to get better.

-James Lownie

[moved from old forum:]

When learning something new or improving our way of doing something we've done for a long time, we must put up with the strange feeling of doing something non-habitual, but we must not put up with actual physical discomfort. It is important for the learning process (and for our safety!) to make this distinction. Confusing "uncomfortable" with "non-habitual" can lead to injuries if we put up with discomfort, and will put a stop to our learning if we avoid anything non-habitual.

-John Link

[moved from old forum:]

Thank you for you advice.

-Mike

[moved from old forum:]

Hi, I've also been experimenting with this issue. I've been playing mainly in classical position but I find myself more and more trying out casual position to see how it feels. It would be nice to be able to play both ways, I know alot of people do. The thing I can't get used to about casual position is the neck being level which is quite different from classical with neck at about a 45% angle. I can't see the frets and where my hand is as well in casual. I agree with Mike that my body seems to be more comfortable in casual position. While I feel like my arms and hands can work more freely in classical.<P> I find playing my acoustic the hardest to play in classical position because it is bigger than my classical or electric guitar and to fit it between my legs I have to open them more and it just feels big and bulky and after a while my body gets cramped.

Can anyone offer any specific things that they do when they switch back and forth between the 2 positions?

Thanks,
Ken K.

[moved from old forum:]

Just joined this forum, not sure if i'm in the right place cause I don't play classical music but the topic is what I have been wondering. I play in classical postion because the neck moves when I try the casual postion. If I sit where I can achor the body against something (like the arm of a couch) then its ok. As others have said it feels more comfortable over all in casual, but I can see better in classical, and the guitar is achored by my inner right thigh. If I am on a bar stool for instance how do I keep the guitar from see sawing on my right leg (in casual) when I change chords?

-Lou407

[moved from old forum:]

Hey welcome to the forum.

The right arm does a lot of the work keeping the guitar anchored when in the casual playing position. The top of the lower bout on the guitar is tucked under the right bicep. The elbow should be in just about the same position it would be in for classical, two or three inches above the top of the guitar where the lower bout begins its downward curve.

If you are sitting on a barstool, your right leg should be positioned higher up than your left. So the lower curve of the guitar body fits securely on your right thigh.

The question is, why would you want to go back to casual position? Are you playing at an open mic thing at a club or something, where they make you play on a barstool? Otherwise, keep at the classical position as much as possible, no matter what style of music you are playing. It will become more comfortable. I didn't like it at first either. It only took me 30 years of playing to decide it is a far superior approach.

-Fred

[moved from old forum:]

Hi ST...actually I have been at it for only 5 monthes and started with classical position without any advice it felt the most natural, although I tend to not use a foot stool but still angle the guitar up enough so I don't reach to far for frets 1-5. The reason I been trying casual is because a friend that has been playing 20 years said I should, unless I plan on playing classical music. The only thing I like about casual is that my wrist feels more natural working the neck, but I can't see the strings as well, and even though I tried all those things you suggest the guitar still moves around too much for me. The reason I used the bar stool example is because I can do casual on say a couch where I can rest the back of the body on something like the arm of the couch to keep it still...with a bar stool type chair I can't

-Lou407

[moved from old forum:]

"Hi ST...actually I have been at it for only 5 monthes and
started with classical position without any advice it felt the
most natural, although I tend to not use a foot stool but
still angle the guitar up enough so I don't reach to far for
frets 1-5."

Definitely try a foot stool. It's great. Gets the neck right up there where it needs to be.

"The reason I been trying casual is because a friend
that has been playing 20 years said I should, unless I plan on
playing classical music."

Tell your friend you now know someone who plays bluegrass music with the guitar in the classical position (sans foot stool, usually). I've been playing for 35 years and would never suggest to anyone that the classical position is only for classical music. That is a ridiculous thing to say. Unless you believe acoustic guitars only play bluegrass music.

"The only thing I like about casual is
that my wrist feels more natural working the neck, but I can't
see the strings as well, and even though I tried all those
things you suggest the guitar still moves around too much for
me. The reason I used the bar stool example is because I can
do casual on say a couch where I can rest the back of the body
on something like the arm of the couch to keep it still...with
a bar stool type chair I can't"

Well...the casual position *is* possible to do effectively. I still use it on occasion. Maybe your friend can give you some tips.

Seriously, observe how he holds the guitar when he plays. Show him the little trouble you're having. Meanwhile, respectfully tell him you are comfortable with the classical position, but that you appreciate certain aspects of the casual style. Then when you learn "Smoke On The Water", play it in classical. And when you learn a Sor etude, play it in casual. That should clear things up for him.

I don't get the couch thing. You say the guitar "see-saws" on your right leg? That means the neck moves up and down as you are playing and changing chords/left hand positioning? The right arm should be taking care of that. I'm trying to figure out how the arm of the couch helps.

-Fred

[moved from old forum:]

I should have mentioned I have an acoustic (seagull) in which I like to play more of the classic rock mellower stuff (mostly strummed)although I can play the smoke on the water rif I have heard that the right arm is suppose to keep the guitar still in the casual position but as you said i'm gonna have to let my pal see why its moving.....The couch thing, let me try to explain....I am holding the guitar in the casual position and where the bottom part hangs off my right leg farther to the right it is touching the arm of the couch so that holds the guitar steady (I guess what my arm should be doing) BTW I did tell him I should hold the guitar how is most comfortable.

-Lou407